Private Forums
Coring with pipe similar to 34"OD
01 July 2015

Dear All

Does anyone used pipe of big OD 34" in drilling with X-O from 34” to Saver sub Connection (6 5/8” Reg).

We would like to have 200 ft of big pipe OD 34" and ID 32.5” to make core and swallow 200 ft. . . .

The 200 ft is very shallow starting from sea bed.

Do you have experience with big pipe, make up torque, thread type, and how many times can be break down the big thread and tight again.

Do you have specification of big pipe to be use in drilling

20 answer(s)
Maitreya0196
Mgr Drilling & Completion Engineering
Hindustan Oil Exploration Company Limited
Total Posts: 8
Join Date: 05/09/14
Seriously, I heard the term "Hollow Bit" for the first time in my career of 29 years. Later, I realized that these days community calls a "Burn Shoe" as a "Hollow Bit. Traditionally we have been using Burn shoes and washover pipes of various sizes for slot recovery for years. But this is a perfect example of New age terminologies creating confusion.

Also the original text of message says "We would like to have 200 ft of big pipe OD 34" and ID 32.5” to make core and swallow 200 ft.... ". To my understanding it means that a person wants to take a solid core of 32.1/2" of 200 ft length, which is a bit unheard off.
hank
fishing tool hand / consultant / advisor / coordinator / tech. rep.
SPREAD Associates
Total Posts: 42
Join Date: 13/03/12
 This hollow bit method has been around for some time and is usually called washing or burning over and is used for slot recoveries, open and cased hole stucks, removing packers etc. "Hollow bit" or shoe designs for different situations are illustrated in most fishing tool catalogs.

______

Note from moderator: Nonetheless it is good to see this being applied, in this hole size, in this company - which has traditionally spent a lot of time (and $$)
on milling out the casing instead of using this approach (for the bigger casing strings)
a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11
Why we did this?? I mean why we recovered the 13 3/8 and 9 5/8 casing out side from 30 " conductor to make sidetrack below 30 " conductor by cement plug. We call this slot recovery by using old 30 " conductor and this is method number 3 hollow bit for slot recovery.
a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11
Yes I have a lot of photos and drilling using hollow with big pipe hydraulic was nothing 200 psi with 800 gpm and torque was 15 000 ft/lb and rpm was 30 to 80 rpm. We saved 15 days instead of milling 9 5/8 and 13 3/8 casing. Easy to recover any casing from ground. Next time we will recover the 30 conductor. Later I will update by all.
a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11
Here the photo for 13 3/8 casing recovery
Documents uploaded by user:
IMG-20160514-WA0014.jpg
admin
Managing Director (rp-squared.com)
Relentless Pursuit Of Perfection Ltd.
Total Posts: 468
Join Date: 10/01/05
Hi Ahmed

Well done, and thankyou for sharing this with the forum!!.  

Are there any lessons-learnt/best-practices that you can share with us? And any diagrams and photographs.

Once again, many thanks.

Dave
a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11
Dear all We successful made big pipe od 20" and ID 17.5" and made hollow bit and drilled cement and formation behind 13 3/8 casing . Drilling was fast and we recovered 400 ft of 13 3/8 and 9 5/8 casing . I think we are first company doing this world wide. Now we have good experience to recover any casing from under ground
shortbits
co-owner
Short Bit & Tool Co.
Total Posts: 17
Join Date: 11/05/13
Granite aggregate reinforced concrete cut with 33" diamond-impreg shoe
Documents uploaded by user:
DSC00080.jpg
shortbits
co-owner
Short Bit & Tool Co.
Total Posts: 17
Join Date: 11/05/13
Here is a 33" diamond shoe we made to test for slot recovery/adding in Hibernia. In the testing we cut a target that was granite aggregate concrete reinforced with 7/8" rebar and 1 5/8" mentioned cable. Just the opposite of your target formation. 
Documents uploaded by user:
33.0 XDS.jpg
shortbits
co-owner
Short Bit & Tool Co.
Total Posts: 17
Join Date: 11/05/13
Pump-off force will be your pressure drop across that bit face, so if you have a 2" bit kurff 34 x 30 x 50 psi you will have about 200 sq. in. the pressure will act on (50 psi x 200 = 10,000 lbs pump off, and that is only if your formation doesn't ask out under your bit.
If you shape your fluid courses in the bit head it could be less are than that.
a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11
Thanks Mr. Dave and Mr. Hamish. we will consider same in our job. we will inform all of by you by the result in next September.
admin
Managing Director (rp-squared.com)
Relentless Pursuit Of Perfection Ltd.
Total Posts: 468
Join Date: 10/01/05
** Input received from Hamish Reid of Halliburton**

** QUOTE **

Assuming single tube, it would help if you can introduce a treatment to the ID of the tube, such as nitriding. This will go some way to repelling the clays, opposite charge etc. I understand in some pile driving applications it dramatically increased  ROP, particularly in clays. A shoe joint could be treated in this way to aid core entry.

Shape would need to be parabolic to ensure that you are not ”˜cramming´ core into the tube. Also there will need to be some form of pressure release during penetration, if working with a closed system.

Recovery of core, if you have to back out a connection you may risk losing core, it may be best to cut the tube.

If confidence in friction-only core retention is low, you could adapt a finger type catcher for a secondary retention mechanism, similar to reverse circulation junk basket. 32” to 34” core will be mighty heavy. You almost be better to pump it out with water using a cement dart/plug.

Hope that helps

Hamish
** UNQUOTE **
admin
Managing Director (rp-squared.com)
Relentless Pursuit Of Perfection Ltd.
Total Posts: 468
Join Date: 10/01/05
Please note that there are alternate shallow (< 300´) drilling technologies common in use in the civil construction industry   that can be adapted to the oil patch, for those that are willing to shift their paradigm; in this instance coring large open ended caissons into the sea floor (commonly done on shore often without pressure fed mud systems, even though rock ). These avoid the pitfalls that Hank is referring to.

Dave
hank
fishing tool hand / consultant / advisor / coordinator / tech. rep.
SPREAD Associates
Total Posts: 42
Join Date: 13/03/12

Ahmed,

  I beleive you are missing the point, I have roughly calculauted your pipe and work string weight and you will likely be pumping yourself out of the hole at 50 psi..... you need to re-thinking some of this....


a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11

Dear Hank.
Hydraulic is good point, it was considered while designing the special big size of that bit, thus been considered with core head or hallow bit or crown bit , it has mud flow cross passes

We are assuming while circulating at 200 ft below sea bed with 250/500 GPM using sea water the surface pressure will be low, also the return will be back to open sea.

 

I will attach the photo later it is especial design to avoid any back pressure, consequently the            impacted forces is not there.

We  just have making core and just trying to drill,  yes I agree with you in case recovery that core needs high tensile strength for this pipe.

Question what is the maximum expected surface torque if we are turning the 34” pipe below the sea bed at 140 ft - RTE to sea bed 160 ft, therefore total depth is 300 ft

Can we assume the current depth is 300 ft, RPM 20 RPM , Bit OD 36” and ID 28” and is has Pipe OD 34” and ID 32”  and length of pipe is 100 ft of 34” pipe OD, then the 34” pipe is cross to 5 "” drill pipe and then the 5 "” drill connect to top drive , length of 5 "” drill pipe 200 FT . Using sea water and 500 GPM

You tagged the sea bed at 160 ft and drilled to 300 ft, current depth is 300 ft MD what is

1.    Surface torque?

2.    Surface pressure?

3.    What is the Hazard from rotating big pipe?

4.    What is the hazard from X-O (cross 34” to 5 "” in OD) we call it drive sub?

5.    Are we going to see surface pressure while we circulating with 500 GPM using that type of BHA?

6.    If stuck happen while drilling what is the solution?  Just applying over pull?

OPNZ
Director
Offshore Piling
Total Posts: 9
Join Date: 26/01/15

Thanks Ahmed, for 34" Pipe / High Torque connections, lead time would be only constraint.

Would you have any Geotech (Bore hole logs or soil investigation)  data for the immediate seafloor from Mud line - 200' ? Would this be an open water operation or through a jacket ? If through a jacket then there should be a site soil investigation report from the jacket installation, if open water with Jackup then there should be at least a spud can penetration report which typically would be based on a ~30 - 35 meter soil boring.    

Core recovery would require careful engineering but not an insurmountable  issue.  I have been associated with large size core recovery in the Dutch North Sea using Vibratory Hammers.

Such an operation as you are considering  would not involve any form of work string given the relatively short string length (11 - 12 Joints)you would use 34" Pipe string for the whole job  there would be a X-over to Sub saver 6-⅝ over a 34" HDHT weight set connector for quick disconnect - reconnect to each add-on joint these are avail in Internal flush external Upset or external flush / internal upset, See attached diagrams

For  coring shoes, core barrels etc  this information is proprietary, however I can be reached on xxxxx ("Removed the email address, but I have connected Ahmed and Doug": Dave Taylor)


Rgds

Doug  Bell  

Documents uploaded by user:
HDHT EF connector General.pdf
HDHT IF.pdf
a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11

Dear Hank.
Hydraulic is good point, it was considered while designing the special big size of that bit, thus been considered with core head or hallow bit or crown bit , it has mud flow cross passes

We are assuming while circulating at 200 ft below sea bed with 250/500 GPM using sea water the surface pressure will be low, also the return will be back to open sea.

 

I will attach the photo later it is especial design to avoid any back pressure, consequently the            impacted forces is not there.

We  just have making core and just trying to drill,  yes I agree with you in case recovery that core needs high tensile strength for this pipe.

Question what is the maximum expected surface torque if we are turning the 34” pipe below the sea bed at 140 ft - RTE to sea bed 160 ft, therefore total depth is 300 ft

Can we assume the current depth is 300 ft, RPM 20 RPM , Bit OD 36” and ID 28” and is has Pipe OD 34” and ID 32”  and length of pipe is 100 ft of 34” pipe OD, then the 34” pipe is cross to 5 "” drill pipe and then the 5 "” drill connect to top drive , length of 5 "” drill pipe 200 FT . Using sea water and 500 GPM

You tagged the sea bed at 160 ft and drilled to 300 ft, current depth is 300 ft MD what is

1.    Surface torque?

2.    Surface pressure?

3.    What is the Hazard from rotating big pipe?

4.    What is the hazard from X-O (cross 34” to 5 "” in OD) we call it drive sub?

5.    Are we going to see surface pressure while we circulating with 500 GPM using that type of BHA?

6.    If stuck happen while drilling what is the solution?  Just applying over pull?


Note from admin
Dear member, Thank-you for submitting your response. However, we have rejected your post for the following reason... Duplicate
hank
fishing tool hand / consultant / advisor / coordinator / tech. rep.
SPREAD Associates
Total Posts: 42
Join Date: 13/03/12

Ahmed,

  Have you calculated the hydraulics of such a venture????????  34 x 34 x .7854 = 908 sq. inches....so for each and every psi standpipe pressure you would have 908 psi pushing your shoe/mill/bit up and this would likely make this venture very difficult, try to maintain enough weight to washover/drill/core and enough pump rate to lubricate/clean the hole made.

  If you wishing to recover the core some calculations would have to be made on the tensile strength of your string and how much you dare pull while you are that shallow, with very little , if any stretch in your work string, remember that with every action there is an equal and opposite re-action. 

a050488
DSL (Drill Site Leader)
Abu Dhabi Marine Operating Company
Total Posts: 48
Join Date: 20/04/11
Thankyou Doug Bell.

Yes we need 34" pipe. It is mandatory. Yes we will make something that is uncommon in drilling.we would like to see can we make 50 ft core or 200 ft with using big size of pipe. The distance to Rkb 160 ft. Water depth 50ft.
OPNZ
Director
Offshore Piling
Total Posts: 9
Join Date: 26/01/15

Hi Ahmed,  a couple of questions.

  1. do you wish to recover the core?
  2. What distance is RKB to Mud line ?
  3. Is the OD of 34" fixed or are there guide or other OD constraints ? ie would 30" or 36" OD Pipe be considered ?

For Big bore connections you can consider Oilstates Puma if you need to be OD / ID flush,  these are reusable with a  make up torque range of ~36 - 42 kips ft, and a breakout value of +10% of final make up value. largest approved  size for DWC activites with PUMA Connectors to my knowledge is 24" given that the depth is only 200' I don't perceive this to be an issue for larger pipe sizes in your vocation. Another option would be A Lynx HDHT Torque resistant weight set connector, this would be very fast to both make up & break out.However like most big bore connectors in the market 34" is not a common stock size. There are proprietary connections that are cut into the pipe itself however these often have a critical cross section in the area of the threads that has a lower yield value than that of the parent pipe, as opposed to weld on connectors that are manufactured from High strength forgings, personal experience with thread cut in pipe connections has not been favourable with regard to ease of breakout / multiple reusability        

Lastly there are available specialty coring shoes to protect the tip of the shoe joint and assist in penetration through hard clay or calcareous layers commonly found at shallow depths of the Arabian Gulf seafloor, alternately there are also core barrel pipe tips that could possibly be adapted to suit your purpose.

Rgds

Doug Bell

Jump to top of the page